CB: That’s an excellent point. I’m also curious because you said you’ve worked in L.A., mostly in San Francisco, but all over. I think part of what makes it very dicey is the fact that when we talk about “the porn industry” it is such an enormous thing. I feel like there is probably a lot of diversity between Kink in comparison with other places….Do you have any thoughts on that?
LL: Yeah, I think that there is a lot of diversity in the industry, certainly. But there is also a kind of network that makes the industry very small. I think there are many, many amateur companies but in terms of larger companies, and companies that continue to make content day after day, there’s not actually that many. And there are not that many performers who work for those companies. They might be a lot [of performers] in Florida, a little bit in New York, a little bit in Vegas, a little bit in San Francisco, and then a lot in L.A. Most of the performers might live all over the country but they’ll commute to L.A., and they’ll commute to these places and they’ll know each other. They’ll know each other from set; they’ll know each other from their agencies; they’ll know each other just from seeing each other at conventions and industry functions. So, a lot of information gets passed around. People generally share with each other what companies are good to work for, and what companies are not good to work for. If companies don’t treat performers well and they end up on their sh*t list…performers won’t work there.
CB: So there is a sense of accountability.
LL: Exactly, there is accountability. In addition to that, there is this…we self-impose standardized testing because we are a small community. We care about our own health and safety, and we care about the health and safety of the people we work with. So, this is not something that is legislated, but this is something that performers, producers, and directors all voluntarily participate in.
CB: This is another big question that is somewhat ambiguous…do you want to talk briefly about what AIM was, and the current protocols [for STI and HIV testing]?
LL: Well, AIM was started in 1998 by Sharon Mitchell who used to be a performer herself…it was a centralized agency that handled STI testing for performers and kept track of all of the information of every performer. When Sharon Mitchell started that, HIV/AIDS was a much bigger problem in the industry. In the years since then, [AIM] basically eradicated the transmission of HIV on set. It’s pretty unbelievable actually, it’s pretty amazing. She is an amazing woman.
The way AIM worked was that they had a central clinic in LA, and they had satellite clinics all over the country so that wherever a performer lived, they could get tested somewhere near their home before they traveled to LA to work. Performers would get tested every twenty-eight days and they would have to have their “clean” test on record at AIM. They would print it out with their seal on it and every time you went to a shoot, the first thing you would do is show the other performers your test and your ID so they would know: that’s your legal name, and that’s your test.
CB: I think what’s also really amazing about this, is that this is something that was instituted by Sharon Mitchell…by a performer. This wasn’t something that was created by the government, in fact was created in spite of it. I think that’s really amazing.
LL: Exactly. Although, while it was instituted by Sharon Mitchell it was also instituted by everyone who agreed to do it. Because people were worried about their friends! People had seen their friends get HIV/AIDS and seen their friends get sick, and nobody wants that. People take this very seriously. Every single performer that I have ever met really believes in the importance of being tested and sharing those test results. Not only that, but AIM had developed all of these protocols so that the few times when performers did test positive…there were on-set transmissions and then there were a few more people who tested positive who did not get HIV on-set. They got in their personal lives. The amazing thing is that AIM had this protocol in place so that when those performers tested positive they were able to communicate with every single company, and every single agency, and were able to inform all of the people that had worked with that person, the people who had worked with those people…so that every person would not be working and would be testing right away, so that it would stop with the person it had started with.
It was really awful when AIM went out of business. It was really frustrating because there just wasn’t something in place to back it up. Talent Testing was the other company that existed at the time and they definitely took on the responsibility for a while…but they were just a testing service. They did not provide (the way that AIM had provided) medical care at their main clinic for performers who had contracted chlamydia or gonorrhea. [AIM] had a doctor there who could give them antibiotics.
CB: I didn’t realize that.
LL: Yeah! They could do pelvic exams and really take care of performer’s health in a more holistic way. They also did a lot of advocacy work, and they did a lot of outreach to new performers and tried to get information into the hands of new performers about taking care of yourself on the job emotionally and physically. That was such a big thing! To have a place that was really looking out for performers. Talent Testing is not that same company. Talent Testing is just a testing service.
CB: And Talent Testing – is that what’s being used now?
LL: Talent Testing is still being used, and after AIM shut down the Free Speech Coalition stepped up to try to create the “next AIM.” And what they created is APHSS – Adult Performer Health and Safety Services. This is supposed to be an organization that has a performer, a producer, a lawyer, and a doctor….its supposed to have all of these different people on their board creating all these different branches of services. Right now they’ve only started implementing testing. I think they want to be a referral service, they want to be a place that does outreach to new performers, outreach to performers who want to get out of the business, all of that stuff. They want to provide all of those services that AIM provided but right now they’ve only started setting up testing. I don’t think they have the infrastructure that AIM had…all of the nationwide communication.
CB: Because AIM had satellite places in every city where you could go? A database?
LL: Yes, and they had developed relationships with those satellite places over the years as well. APHSS is still finding the right clinics to perform testing in their various locations. They’re still working out all of those relationships. They’ve developed a new system also, where the information that they keep in their database is not test results, it’s only a “Yes I can work,” or “No, I can’t work.”
CB: Because you have such an interesting career and you’ve been in the industry for a relatively long time – if we want to think about “health and safety” or “risks” – what’s your feeling about this in the industry? How has your understanding of these things changed over the last decade?
LL: Well for myself – I don’t feel like it’s a risky job for me at all right now…At this point in my career I’ve been doing it for so long I feel like I know really clearly what my boundaries are, what my limits are, and how to take care of my own health and safety. I think the biggest risks for performers are not STIs, it is questions of boundaries, and knowing how to take care of [yourself] emotionally on set. When I say that, I don’t actually mean what they want to do, and what they don’t want to do…that’s an important question for girls to know, certainly. It can be a hard one to answer because our society does not teach you to know what you want, if you’re a girl. They teach you to “say no,” or they might say, “You can say yes if you really love someone” but they don’t really talk about what you’re supposed to be saying “yes” to. There’s still this idea that sex is this one thing. Certainly when you get into the porn industry you find that the job you’re doing involves many different kinds of performance. So, often times that’s something you have to learn. What kinds of performances you want to do, and what kinds you don’t want to do.
CB: That makes sense. Finding your voice, in that sense, and being able to articulate yourself…Knowing what you like…
LL: Different companies do these very different kinds of scenes and they feel very different, both emotionally and physically. People often talk about “gonzo” and “features,” and features supposedly have a story line and gonzo films don’t. That’s the basic difference. But sometimes gonzo films do have some kind of story-line and feature films can be more relaxed…But some of it is very fake and some of it is very much about trying to create a “real,” physical experience. People have their preferences as to what they would rather do in terms of these performances.
But besides that, what can be hard for new performers is more about emotional boundaries. This is for men and women both. When you’re on set, you’re going to get a lot of attention all at once from a lot of different people: from the director, from the person you’re performing with, and from the fans who see it later. You have to know what that attention means; recognize how it makes you feel; know how much you want to take part in that and how much you want to leave it behind at the end of the day. I think that can be the hardest thing for people to figure out: recognizing that this is a job and that…the sexual performances that you’re doing don’t have any emotional value. I think that both men and women, but especially women are taught that sex has an emotional value, and that having sex somehow depletes you….that performing in a sexual way, or revealing a part of your body somehow takes something away from you. It’s really important to learn really quickly that is not true. You have the same value at the end of the day that you did at the beginning! Your performance that you’ve created is separate from who you are. It might very much feel like it’s apart of who you are, you know? But you have to know that it’s a thing you created, and that’s not “you.” I mean, I think that is the riskiest part of this job.
CB: I was going to ask you, for people who are reading this and are new to the industry, what kinds of advice you might give to think through questions of safety…
LL: It’s good to recognize in yourself whether you can separate sexual performances from your personal emotional life. The other advice that I have for newer performers is to know that you can never truly keep it a secret. People have asked me, for example, “Oh, I have this great job!” or “I want to be in this field and I just want to make a porn movie one time, but I’m afraid it will damage my reputation in my field.” Then I say: “Absolutely don’t make a porn movie. Go to a sex party where you can have sex in front of other people and it won’t haunt you for the rest of your life.” I don’t want to imply that porn necessarily “haunts you,” but…your family will undoubtedly find out. Someone will recognize you, they’ll call your sister, your sister will call your mom, your mom will call the porn company asking them to take the porn video down…these are from real life! [Laughs] These examples are from real life. Or, your entire extended family will see you on the Sunday morning news at the AVN [Adult Video Network] convention! [Laughs]
CB: This also happened to you?!
LL: Yes, it was NBC or CBS or one of those, and it was the Sunday morning national news, and they did a short “CBS goes to the adult video convention in Las Vegas!” They’re on the red carpet, and when you (the performer) are walking the red carpet there are a hundred people with microphones and cameras and you don’t know who you’re talking to! So, this guy had asked me “Oh, who made your dress?” And I was like, “Forever 21!” [Laughs] Anyway, they used this clip, and my stepfather saw it, my aunts, uncles, and they all called my Mom. Luckily I had already told her, but…it was horrible! I couldn’t go home to visit for a little while, my stepfather was too upset. In a way I’m glad that they know because it means that they stop asking me, “What’s your job?” [Laughs] The point is that you can’t expect [working in porn] to be a secret. Ultimately: the worst consequences of being in porn are going to be social. They’re going to be conflicts with your family, conflicts with people you meet in the future, conflicts with people you date!