CB: This is interesting to think about in terms of risks and health, these are really big social and psychological issues…
LL: Yeah, and definitely when you first start. I think many people start out making porn very young. There aren’t that many things you can do when you’re eighteen or nineteen that will have an effect on the rest of your life. [Porn] will never go away.
CB: So just to back up for a second, with APHSS and Talent Testing – do you see them as being effective or if there certain changes that you could imagine, what would they be?
LL: Well in terms of testing, I still think the systems are effective…I think there was a period when they were less effective because the companies did not understand how to implement testing so, for example, they weren’t checking people’s ID’s when they went to the clinic to get their blood drawn because no one was used to that idea. We [porn performers] are going to clinics where people get their blood drawn for all kinds of reasons. So, I’ve gone to the clinic and had the phlebotomist say to me, “I don’t need to look at your ID, you’re the one who ordered this test.” They completely don’t understand the purpose of what they’re doing. That was very frustrating for awhile because I just did not feel like my safety was being protected. I think they’re getting better, the clinics have been around for awhile longer, and they’re starting to get better. That said, I miss AIM because of the performer influence in the creation of the company. I still think that providing information to new performers is really important and I do think that if performers end up with an agency they get a lot of guidance, and they get guidance from other girls, or from other performers. Performers are really good about sharing information. I think I said this already, but you can find, on the internet even, writing blogs about their experiences and about their experiences about protecting their own health. I just think it’s an incredible group of people in that capacity, so I think that’s really a good thing.
CB: So for my last question I have researchers in mind…If you were to think about issues that deserve critical attention in the porn industry, what would those be?
LL: Yeah, well definitely the relative effectiveness of condoms versus testing.
CB: Like, the necessity of empirical data?
LL: Absolutely we need hard data, and we need hard data not just on condom use in personal relationships but for companies, and on sets, which is very different. The way that sexual interactions happen on set is completely different than the way sexual interaction happens in people’s private lives. This is not “sex” the way that most people know sex; this is performance. So, we need to know how their methods work in performance! It’s a completely different question.
CB: I don’t know what you think about this, but it’s clear that the porn industry is not amenable to, or interested in using condoms, whether [this comes from] performers or producers… There’s some part of this pornographic relationship where condoms are not considered to be an attractive idea. So what are other alternatives? If its testing, or if its using things like spermicides that will protect for HIV. Has that ever been considered? Do you know what I mean?
LL: I do know what you mean. I mean, yes, producers are opposed to condom use, but also performers are very opposed to condom use as a general group. Spermicidal creams, or things that will kill HIV, I wouldn’t want to say that everybody has to use that either. That actually sound like something that would give me a horrible yeast infection and would be really painful. I don’t want anyone telling me what I have to put in my body. Maybe that’s why people are so opposed to condoms too. They don’t want the government telling them what they have to put in their body. Getting tested is one thing, and it feels effective. It feels empowering, you know? Where these other measures do not feel empowering to people and I think that’s a big question. IF we are going to look at methods that are going to truly work, they’re going to have to feel like they would freely choose it.
CB: It’s a matter of finding things which people will actually do!
LL: Exactly, this is the whole thing. There are many reasons why a condom mandate makes no sense, but one of the most basic reasons is that people will not follow it! People will cut the tip off the condom, and wear the little ring so that it looks, in the video, as if they’re wearing one. You know? People will find all kinds of ways around it.
CB: Part of what you have alluded to in writing is that it’s maybe not about this question of performer. Maybe the real question is that: if it’s a specific geographic question of LA county, maybe there might be ulterior motives.
LL: Ulterior motives, exactly. And another thing to consider is that testing has been effective. In all of the propaganda about making condoms mandatory they are always talking about HIV. But HIV infections are prevented! They have been almost eradicated within the porn industry, which is unbelievable! So basically, the previous system was actually effective.
CB: Especially when you consider how many times people are having sex every single minute within the porn industry! [Laughs]
Lee and Baum discuss important issues in the porn industry via Skype
LL: How many shoots are done every day of the year – Saturdays, Sundays, holidays – there are people making porn and there are many hundreds of people making porn every day. They’re not giving people HIV, this is being used as an emotional, manipulative tactic….and, you know, it is an industry that provides LA with a lot of income.
CB: Billions.
LL: I also want to throw in there that porn performers pay their taxes. We are contributing members of society! [Laughs]
Indeed, porn performers pay dues in several respects. Thank you, Lorelei, for contributing to Bodies on the Line! Feel free to add to this discussion in the comment section below. – CB